Jack's Throwback Attack Podcast (Episode 5) - A Chat With Richard O'Brien

Or alternatively. Listen to the chat on Youtube. 

The third and final interview I have related to The Crystal Maze. Seeing as it's Christmas, it has to be quite a special one I'm incredibly proud to present an interview with original maze master Richard O'Brien.

Richard is one of my heroes. Being a long time fan of both The Crystal Maze and The Rocky Horror Show. I never thought in a million years our paths will cross, but they have. I am incredibly lucky and never did I think when I started this blog earlier this year. Such a thing would happen.

But how did it happen? Well the whole idea of doing a series of Crystal Maze interviews never dawned on me after I interviewed David G. Croft. I thought that would be the only interview I'd ever get. With Richard being a native of New Zealand now and Ed Tudor-Pole known for being reluctant to talk about his time on the show.

But Richard was on my list of names of people I'd like to interview. I thought the idea of recording an overseas phone or skype call would be possible. So with the help of a friend, I acquired his agents details and sent off an email. I got a reply back within 48 hours. Richard was due to visit the UK later in the year I was told by his (incredibly helpful and polite. I have to say) agent and could I message back sooner to the time.

So about 3 months later, I emailed again. I explained who I was and what I was doing and that I am able to record a telephone conversation quite easily. The email response I got back, knocked me back and I had to re-read it a number of times to take it in. Richard had asked his agent to ask me if I'd like to do it IN PERSON at his hotel in London when he was back in the country for a few weeks.

I pretty much agreed to do it before even asking if I could have the time off work (I run this blog as a hobby). So three weeks later, I set off to London incredibly early in the morning. I arrived about two hours before the interview was due to take place. So I sat in a Wetherspoons and had breakfast while writing what I was going to ask him. I figured it would be nice to chat about his life and Rocky Horror as well as The Crystal Maze. I decided to write more questions about the latter as there are already several interviews with Richard purely about The Rocky Horror Show and very few about The Crystal Maze.

Half an hour before we're due to meet and the nerves start kicking in. I slowly walk to the hotel Richard was staying at. I turn up about ten minutes early, so stand outside a few minutes, pacing back and forth. I then enter the hotel. Just as I am asking the hotel receptionist for Richard. There he comes walking down the stairs. Smiling at everyone in the lobby. He walks straight past me (well he didn't know what I looked like) and begins looking around for me. I chase after him going "Richard! Richard!".

He turns around "Oh hello! Are you Jack?". "Yes I am" I respond. He shakes my hand and tells me to come upstairs and he takes me to a communal sitting room in the hotel. A very cosy one. Complete with big chairs and sofas. Old books on shelves and a big fire place. Richard tells me to make myself comfy. Asks if I want a drink and if I want the fire on. Being a bit lost for words that RICHARD O'BRIEN is bending over backwards for me. I respond "Erm.....tea please!".

This. Is. Surreal.

Richard runs off and a few minutes later returns with a hotel staff member to put the fire on for us both. Before we start the interview we make the usual small talk. Richard had landed in the UK the previous day and was still tired and jet lagged (he is also, as of 2018, 76 years of age!).

Actually by complete coincidence. Just before I arrived at the hotel. I walked past a chocolate shop which has a Rocky Horror inspired advert in the window (Halloween was coming up).

I decided to take a photo to show Richard. Which I did. He smiled and said his daughter had seen a similar thing in Brighton. A chocolate shop with chocolate statues of all the Rocky Horror characters!

Richard explained he was in the UK for a theatre play. Whether it was to be in it, or be a part in the production. He didn't say. I don't think he even said which play come to think of it and that there'd been a bit of a mix up and a theatre hadn't even been booked!

So I'm setting up my recording device (a Tascam which I had bought especially for this) and decide to set my mobile phone to record too. Just as a back up. I start my phone recording and Richard responds "Oh, I don't like that". I ask him what he meant. He didn't like seeing the recording timer on my phone counting up. "When you get to my age, you don't want to see time passing like that". A fair point. So I turn the phones screen off.

So I start recording and we start chatting. About 10 minutes in to the chat. A staff member appears with the tea I had asked for and sets it on the table. Richard asks if I'd like to pause so I could drink it and remarks "Oh, how lovely, they've event brought you a little cake!".

So after a few quick sips of tea. I start recording again. In fact, I recorded this chat in three blocks. Just in case any part were to screw up in the recording process. I'd rather part of it be screwed than the whole thing. We must have chatted for well over an hour.

Once we'd finished. I asked Richard if he wouldn't mind signing some things for me. Which he happily agreed too. I had brought with me. An original Crystal Maze book called Crystal Maze Challenge. He signed that for me. As he was signing the book he looked at the photos of himself on the Crystal Maze set and said to me "You know, I was 50 when I did that! I could still run faster than the contestants!" We also had a photo together. Admittedly I'm not a great selfie taker.

After that. He left a tip for the staff member who brought the tea. Going through a handful of coins, he remarks to me "What coins that? Is it tuppence? They've changed the design!".

After that, he kisses the back of my hand and we say goodbye to each other and with that he was gone. Very quickly, some hotel guests appeared wanting to use the seating area we had been sat at. So I very hurriedly packed my things and left. Checking my bag constantly that my Tascam was definitely in there.

I actually almost went straight home. Apart from popping in to a Forbidden Planet store. Where I spent a good 10 minutes walking around. Not even taking in what I'm looking at as it hits me that I've just interviewed a living legend. Responsible for writing one of the most successful musicals in the world and presenting a cult game show which has remained a favourite for almost 30 years. After that, I headed home.

So what was Richard like in person? They often say "Never meet your heroes, you'll be disappointed". In this case, that is so far from the truth. Richard comes across as nothing but charming. He didn't have to make that much time for me. Especially with the severe jet lag he was probably going through at the time. But he did. Despite being someone who had enjoyed some big successes in his life and is regarded as something of a national treasure. None of that has gone to his head and he comes across as very humble and told me a few times he's incredibly lucky to be where he is. I didn't see the Richard O'Brien known for his flamboyance and extrovert nature that day. I saw a different side to him. A quiet, shy and gentle man. Who reflected with great nostalgia and a warm smile. His life and extraordinary career which he felt he'd just stumbled in to.

It's a day I'll never forget.

Thank you Richard and thank you to his agent Helen too!

Jack's Throwback Attack Podcast (Episode 4) - A Chat With David G. Croft

Alternatively. You can listen to the chat on Youtube. 

Following on from my chat with former Crystal Maze contestant Bob Lishman. Which can be found here. The second interview I have is a chat with David G. Croft.

Image Credit - David G. Croft

David worked on the original series of The Crystal Maze for the whole six series run. Being responsible for co-creating it and creating some of the games for the show. As well as directing the first two series. Producing Series 3 and 4. Before being both the director and producer for Series 5 and 6.

In this chat. We discuss how The Crystal Maze format was devised. Why Richard O'Brien and Ed Tudor-Pole were chosen to present. The process of how the show was filmed as well as discussing those infamous Christmas tapes which have been leaked on to Youtube.

David G. Croft has an impressive list of credits to his name. From working on the original Live Aid concert as well as Top of the Pops and Shooting Stars. He is now the Head of Television at the Nation Film and Television School. His website can be found here.

The Crystal Maze (Original Series) - A Contestants Story

Well as part of my month of Crystal Maze related content. I'm proud to announce a Q&A with someone who was very lucky to be a contestant on the original Crystal Maze back in 1995!

Back in the early 00's. Being the avid Crystal Maze fan I was from a young age. I remember looking online for any content. These days, there's numerous websites, fan sites, social media groups and Youtube uploads. But back then there was very little. There was Wikipedia, the UKgameshows article and this website. Created by a former contestant called Bob Lishman.

The site was created in the late 90's and contained Bob's story of being on the show as well as clips from his episode. Bob was a contestant during the sixth and final series presented by second maze master Ed Tudor-Pole. His other team members were Simon Halstead, Kate Prior, Heather Walling, Neil Watson and Tracey Hinks.

While looking for a former contestant to interview. I came across Bob's website again. Still in it's 90's design glory. So I dropped Bob an email and he kindly agreed to a chat!

What inspired you to apply for The Crystal Maze?

I'd watched the show from the very beginning as I'm a big fan of puzzles. I used to own a pub and we would have the show on the TV in the bar every Thursday evening. I was always shouting at the telly during the shows and making comments to my customers about how bad some of the contestants were. One night a customer said to me "If you think you could do better, why don't you go on the show?". I thought about it overnight and the next morning when I opened the pub I decided to ring Channel 4 and ask them how I could apply to be on the show. 

What was the application process like?

Much more difficult then I imagined. First off they sent an application form which was 6 x A4 pages full of questions. That was filled in and sent off and then I got a letter inviting me to an audition at a hotel in Manchester. They auditioned us in groups of 6 and it started by each of us having to stand up and talk about ourselves for 3 minutes. After that, we were then asked to play games as though we were on the show. One person had to complete the puzzle/game (they were all table top games/puzzles, no running around!) whilst the other five people shouted help and encouragement. After the last game were then told the auditions were over and that they would write to us to let us know if we had been successful. 

What was your reaction when you were selected? Did you tell anyone?

Actually, they rang me. At the time I was staying with friends in Spain on holiday so the phone call was a complete shock. I was on my own at the time and I remember physically jumping around the flat with excitement! When my friends returned I immediately told them but, being Spanish, they didn't really understand what the show was about or why I was so excited. When I got back to the UK and my pub I told everyone there and they were almost as excited as I was.

You mention on your website that the night before filming. You had dinner with your group and Ed Tudor-Pole. What was that like?

Well, it wasn't what I was expecting at all. I was told to be at the hotel by 7pm and that I would be having dinner with the other people selected for our episode but it wasn't until we arrived that we found out Ed would be joining us. We were joined by Elaine, the researcher who had held the auditions in Manchester. As far as the meal went, well, Ed is quite a character. He's a bit "off the wall" to say the least but in reality, we, the contestants, all spent most of the night getting to know each other rather than Ed. Elaine was delightful and at the end of the meal announced that she had chosen who was going to be captain and vice-captain. Being the oldest person there (I was 39) I assumed that I would be captain and so, being honest, I was a bit miffed when Elaine said Tracey was going to be captain and that Neil was going to be vice-captain. 

I actually went to bed that night in a bit of a mood. However, once we started filming I was really pleased not to be chosen as it meant I could just enjoy the games and not have to worry about remembering who had to play which games. 

What was one difference between what you saw filming and the final edited show which surprised you?

The amount of time spent NOT filming. The show was filmed in very short bursts. It wasn't played in real time. They only had two cameras and so the director was forever shouting "cut" and were whisked off to the green room whilst they repositioned the cameras and then brought back and put back "in place" (using polaroid photos taken at the time the director shouted "cut") and then we'd film again for another few minutes. It was also a surprise to play the games a second time on the following day so they could get the "cut-away" shots to be edited in to the final show. I hadn't realised the show was filmed over two days. 

Was the set impressive to see for real?

And then some. The set is the real star of the show. It was exactly as shown in the on screen graphics during the show, even with the dome being in the the centre of the set. 

One big surprise was also how it smelt. The Ocean Zone was decorated with REAL seaweed which had been there for over a year when we filmed. And it smelt quite bad. 

Which zone did you like the most? 

The Aztec Zone was the best with all that sand and, of course, the river. Although the stone was actually made of polystyrene it looked very real, even close up. The wall was fun to climb and the game rooms were just wonderful. 

Now from watching your episode. I know you did very well at the games you played. But could you tell us which games you played and how well you did?

Well, I played a total of three games. My first game was a skill game in the Aztec Zone and was basically a maze with a crystal inside it and it had a single exit point. I had to manoeuvre the crystal with a wooden pole and use two moveable wooden blocks as well to get the crystal to the exit point. I actually realised very early on in the game how to do it and so although it was a two minute game I managed to get the crystal and get out with half a minute to spare. 


My second crystal was in the Medieval Zone where I had to release a giant ring from a rope woven in to a wall, it was a variation of a Chinese ring and rope puzzle so I had an idea how to do it. Having said that, the ring (and rope) was very large, about 1 meter in diameter, so it was more of a physical challenge then the mental challenge it was supposed to be. It was a two and a half minute game which I managed to do with 40 seconds to spare. 

The last game I played was in the Future Zone. I had a grabbing style fishing rod and had to manipulate the crystal through another case of bars. It was almost impossible to see the crystal and after trying for almost three minutes I managed to escape the game but without the crystal. In fact, that game was never won by anyone during the whole of season 6. 

What was The Crystal Dome like? Could you see or hear things very well?

It was a lot smaller than I imagined it would be from seeing it on TV but it's not really that big once you're inside.  

The fans are so noisy that once they start you can't hear anything. We were told before filming started that we wouldn't be able to hear the conch (Which was blown by Ed at the very start of the episode) or final whistle and to watch the floor manager who would give us a visible signal. In fact, the starting conch noise was added on during the editing. 

What was Ed Tudor-Pole Like?

Well, I think the best word to describe him is "eccentric". He's just as strange off-screen as he is on-screen, which we discovered during the meal. He's an "odd bod" to say the least!

Did anything amusing happen on set that didn't make it in to the final programme?

Yes. Neil actually actually broke the boat that he had to row during his game in the Ocean Zone. 

Neil was very "enthusiastic" when rowing the boat and had ignored the directors instructions on how and when to row the boat and the boat's mechanism actually broke because of this. Filming was stopped and it was decided that he wasn't going to be able to win the crystal even if the boat hadn't broke and so, with the agreement of the team, the director decided to restart filming with Neil abandoning the game and to re-shoot the last part of the game the following day, showing him failing the task but without actually breaking the boat. This meant we could continue filming the rest of the show without having to wait for the boat to be repaired.

Did you get on well with your team?

Yes, we all got on extremely well. I guess we were very lucky we "gelled" almost immediately during the evening meal. The fact that we were all Crystal Maze fanatics really showed through and we had a great time. We all realised right from the beginning that we needed to help each other if we were to stand any chance of winning the prize but it actually become more than that. Because there were so many pauses in filming meant that we spent a lot of time in the green room where we talked tactics on how to win our crystals and beat the dome.

Have you remained in contact with any of your team?

Yes, very much so. 24 years after filming, five of us are in touch via Facebook on a regular basis. Unfortunately, before Facebook came along we lost touch with Simon and even though we've tried to find him he seems to have decided to be "off grid" and we haven't been able to contact him. 

It's been great to watch the younger team members grow up, get married and have children. They all feel like an extended family and we've shared some highs - as well as lows - during the last 20 odd years.

Your team was one of the lucky few to win (I have to say get the over 100 gold tokens total in 35 seconds is impressive). Ed mentions your prize as being a trip to Cyprus. Did the six of you really go there?

Yes we did. We went the following April, before the show aired and it was great to have the team together again after almost six months after filming. We did all the things they said we would on the show and although it was only a few days it was great fun. We even had it videoed and I still have my copy of the holiday video, albeit on VHS!

When the show aired. Did you get recognised a lot after?

Yes, which was a big surprise to me. I remember walking around my local shopping centre and people (mostly kids) coming and asking if I was the guy "off The Crystal Maze". It has always remained a mystery to me that this happened. I knew the show was popular but I didn't expect strangers to approach me. 

Did you keep any souvenirs from the show?

Well, don't tell anyone but yes, we did "borrow" a few tokens from the dome. 

Do you still own your "I Cracked The Crystal Maze" commemorative Crystal?

It was stolen in a burglary at my house in the UK years ago. The box it came in was not the same as the one you saw on the show which was transparent. The box we received was solid blue and looked very much like a watch case which I guess the burglar(s) thought it was. I was gutted at losing it and asked my insurance company if they would replace it and they agreed to. However, as many years passed since the show finished, when I contacted Channel 4 and Chatsworth TV and finally the jewelers who made them. I was told that the moulds used to make the crystals had been destroyed and there was no way they could make a new one. Very sad but hey, what can you do?

Do you still tell people you appeared on the show? Does it make a good conversation starter? 

With the shows revival it has become a talking point so yes, if it comes in to conversation then I tell them. I never start a conversation with it because I realise not everyone is a Crystal Maze fanatic like me, but if someone else starts talking about it then yes. I tell them and they are always fascinated to hear the story of  how I got on to the show and how the show is made. 

With the show being rerun constantly on Challenge TV. Do people still like to tell you your episode is on?

That used to happen when Challenge first started showing them. It doesn't really happen anymore because they have been rerun so many times since. Our episode has been shown several times a year for almost 20 years so the novelty has worn off for most of our friends. However with the new Crystal Maze Youtube channel being launched - and our episode being uploaded to it - I have received a few messages recently. My old website has also been re-uploaded (although I've not updated it since 2001) but it's there for people to see and gets a few visits a week thanks to a link on Wikipedia. If anyone wants to see it they can find it at www.boblishman.com. It's there more as an archive than anything else. People can also see our episode on Youtube. 

Thanks Bob!